and now it’s time to play “imagine the reaction if Trump had said that“.
Occasional Reader
6/24/2021 6:34:22 AM
4
Reply to lucius septimius in 1:
And remember, kids, it’s simultaneously true that 1) 380 million privately owned guns in the United States will never defeat Leviathan: and 2) on January 6 a couple hundred unarmed protesters nearly overthrew the US government.
Occasional Reader
6/24/2021 6:37:51 AM
5
And thank heavens that our steely eyed military and political leadership are focused on the big picture:
I'm imagining being in the first unit on scene, looking at that.... and suffering a momentary sense of overwhelming helplessness before calling in a couple of task forces and every heavy rescue unit in the lower half of the state.
Occasional Reader
6/24/2021 8:27:49 AM
12
In #11 JCM said: and suffering a momentary sense of overwhelming helplessness
Indeed. Unless you actually find someone wandering around injured, there would be little those first EMTs could do, other than start sifting through the rubble with bare hands and basic tools (itself, a risky proposition, I would think).
It will be, ah, interesting to find out who constructed the building, and who signed off on the most recent inspection, etc.
Kosh's Shadow
6/24/2021 8:29:27 AM
13
Reply to JCM in 9:
There was some building maintenance; a 40-year check, and roof repair, but those are not likely to cause a collapse. (No crane to fall on the building)
I note JPost points out this is in a very Jewish district.
Witness described the sound of thunder and then stuff falling for 15-30 seconds.
Kosh's Shadow
6/24/2021 8:30:18 AM
14
In #12 Occasional Reader said: It will be, ah, interesting to find out who constructed the building, and who signed off on the most recent inspection, etc.
Built in 1980 and was undergoing 40 year reinspection.
vxbush
6/24/2021 8:31:23 AM
15
In #13 Kosh's Shadow said: Witness described the sound of thunder and then stuff falling for 15-30 seconds.
That sounds absolutely terrifying.
Occasional Reader
6/24/2021 8:35:30 AM
16
In #13 Kosh's Shadow said: I note JPost points out this is in a very Jewish district.
Oh, dear.
One does have to wonder, doesn't one...
JCM
6/24/2021 8:36:12 AM
17
Reply to Occasional Reader in 12:
Closest I ever came was officer on the first Aid unit on a car accident with 5 critical victims. Only 2 of us on the first unit.
Made the triage decisions. Called for more units 3 medic units, so every patient would have at least one medic and the closest 4 more aid and engine units to get each person two EMTS.
Still lost two people. 30+ years ago... still think about that one.
Still case in FL. Can't do much with the pile, too dangerous. But the rest of the building can be evacuated.
Is that the same building as shown in #9? Because the video shows a building completely collapsed, while #9 shows a building with one wing partially collapsed and a lot of rubble. I'm having trouble comparing the two images, no doubt because of the different views.
vxbush
6/24/2021 9:00:33 AM
20
I'm thinking this looks like someone with demolition experience got in there.
vxbush
6/24/2021 9:01:18 AM
21
In #19 vxbush said: Is that the same building as shown in #9? Because the video shows a building completely collapsed, while #9 shows a building with one wing partially collapsed and a lot of rubble. I'm having trouble comparing the two images, no doubt because of the different views.
Ah, never mind; hubby got the two aligned. I see it now.
Kosh's Shadow
6/24/2021 9:06:53 AM
22
Reply to vxbush in 20:
It came fairly straight down. If it had been a sinkhole, that would have had to be exactly in the right place, or it would have tipped.
JCM
6/24/2021 9:09:22 AM
23
Reply to vxbush in 19:
Point of view of the video is to the left of the static picture above.
The tall standing structure in the center is the elevator core.
In the video the center section collapse then the section in the right of the video.
The picture above area from the elevator core halfway to the viewer is that center section of the video, then rest of the pile closest to the viewer is that right section.
New partial sequences of the novel coronavirus may help shed light on the early spread of the virus, after a scientist uncovered 34 samples of the SARS-CoV-2 virus from early on in the initial epidemic in Wuhan that were mysteriously deleted from the internet, according to a pre-print analysis published on bioRxiv.
Bloom first noticed that data was missing from the National Institutes of Health's Sequence Read Archive (SRA), when he saw that data listed in a study on early mutational events of the virus was missing from the SRA. Data can only be deleted from the SRA by an email request.
vxbush
6/24/2021 9:39:21 AM
25
In #24 Kosh's Shadow said: COVID cover-up
Note that I'm also reading today about cases disappearing from the VAERS database for tracking adverse reactions to the virus. I might understand some of them being updated after additional information comes to light, but I would never delete the data. I was taught in grad school you never EVER delete the data.
Second, we discussed disrupting illegal gun trafficking. Now, the gun lobby wants you to believe that cities that are the toughest gun — have the toughest gun laws still have the highest rates of gun violence, as was pointed out by the group we had today in our roundtable. They — the violence is so — they argue, “Why do you need those gun laws if they don’t work in cities that have tough laws?” Don’t believe it.
Occasional Reader
6/24/2021 9:54:32 AM
27
Reply to JCM in 26:
"Churchillian", that's the only way to describe Joe's rhetoric...
I heard a supposition that the building might not have been up to standards when it was originally built. Depends on the contractors and construction company. Could have lower grade cement, not enough rebar, you name it.
PaladinPhil
6/24/2021 10:49:26 AM
31
Reply to vxbush in 20:
From the surveillance video, I would say that it's a pure structural collapse. No explosions at the base before the fall.
Kosh's Shadow
6/24/2021 11:02:51 AM
32
Reply to PaladinPhil in 30:
I tend to hear of buildings under construction failing due to faulty concrete, but not as often existing buildings. I suppose if there were cracks in the concrete, the rebar could get rusted, especially being near the ocean.
But it did fall pretty much straight down. I don't know if there was a single support that was in the middle and failed, but I don't think it was one near an edge or corner.
vxbush
6/24/2021 11:30:21 AM
33
In #31 PaladinPhil said: From the surveillance video, I would say that it's a pure structural collapse. No explosions at the base before the fall.
Good point. It just looks exactly like the demolition videos I've seen.
Kosh's Shadow
6/24/2021 12:33:34 PM
34
In #33 vxbush said: It just looks exactly like the demolition videos I've seen.
That's because it went fairly straight down. Usually in an accidental collapse, one support fails, and the building collapses in that direction. Other supports will fail because the load on them is not what they were designed for (more, because of the failed support, and with torque rotating to the failed support.
Controlled demolitions deliberately sequence the explosions breaking supports so the building falls where they want.
In this case, either multiple supports failed very quickly, which would indicate a deliberate action, or some kind of central support failed.
JCM
6/24/2021 1:09:59 PM
35
It also looks like the collapse starts low down. Features in the middle of section move down together as the collapse starts. Indicates to me a failure lower down.
Supports lower down have more forces on them. Soil subsidence or shifting, corrosion of the rebar, etc...
Kosh's Shadow
6/24/2021 1:16:00 PM
36
Reply to JCM in 35:
I'd expect soil shifting or a sinkhole to not be so close to the center that it falls straight down. It can happen, but less likely to me than something off to the side. Also, shifting but not a sinkhole would involve sideways motion, and thus it wouldn't be straight.
JCM
6/24/2021 2:29:08 PM
37
Alice in Dairyland
6/24/2021 3:05:14 PM
38
Boy, take off for a few weeks (camping) and a lot happens! Buzz, I hope your surgery goes well and you are out and about soon.
JCM
6/24/2021 3:39:11 PM
39
Reply to Alice in Dairyland in 38:
Welcome back oh sunburnt, mosquito bitten one!
Alice in Dairyland
6/24/2021 3:48:12 PM
40
Reply to JCM in 39:
You'd have had to have sun to get a sunburn. Cold and stormy where we were. The only good thing about the cold was no mosquitos. We had a good time though.
JCM
6/24/2021 3:54:11 PM
41
Reply to Alice in Dairyland in 40:
Up here in the Northwet we don't tan .... we rust!
We're used to wet camping. Except one time, it rain the whole time, we were ready and comfortable....
Until about 3:00am when the lake rose and flooded our tent.
Alice in Dairyland
6/24/2021 4:56:20 PM
42
In #41 JCM said: when the lake rose and flooded our tent.
Some things you just can't plan for. We were quite high above the lake but not high enough. A little river of water was running through our campsite from higher ground above us. My husband dug a little channel and diverted the water, so we were okay then.
JCM
6/19/2021 5:46:18 PM
Kosh's Shadow
6/24/2021 8:29:27 AM